[upbeat drum based song]

LEO: Hello, and welcome to a very special mini episode of Changing The Frame. My name is Leo, and my pronouns are he, him. 

INDIGO: My name is Indigo and my pronouns are she and her. It’s been a year since we released our first episode and we wanted to commemorate and celebrate the journey we’ve been on so far with this many episodes now. Um, we are so happy with how our first year has gone and very thankful to all the cool trans and non-binary people that we’ve talked to and had a chance to meet and become friends with during this time. 

LEO: So a little recap for you. Since the 9th of September of 2022, we have released a total of 11 episodes plus two little mini episodes that we’ve done in between. Um, we have had the chance to interview filmmakers, producers, camera operators, writers, musicians, live artists, media artists, film curators, and film projectors who identify as trans and/or non-binary and work in the film industries. 

INDIGO: Um, for this episode, we’re gonna have a few questions just to like catch up, um, and also talk about how we felt during this process. Um, so Leo, what have you learned from making Changing The Frame? 

LEO: Right. So I have learned a lot about transcribing, ’cause the way we set up the work for ourselves was to separate tasks. And you’ve picked up the audio editing for the podcast and I picked up the transcribing and I’ve learned how arduous and boring transcribing can be, but it’s also very rewarding. Um, so yeah, shout out to all the people who do transcribing for their work. ’cause it’s, it’s, it’s a lot. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of hours to put into reading text on the computer. I have also learned about commitment. We actually started plotting the podcast well before we released the first episode. So we had a few months of being in the making and our, I feel like the time we’ve put into the podcast has shifted a lot through the months, and that has meant for me to reevaluate the time I’m put into the podcast and how I’m committing to it by how much effort I put into it. So yeah, it’s been, it’s been a learning curve. And I’m very glad we’ve made it here, ’cause I’m very proud of all the work we’ve done.  I feel like we’ve learned a lot. 

INDIGO: Same, yeah. I feel like I’ve, like you said, I’m doing the editing, the audio, and I feel like I’ve learned a lot about that. Um, I’ve also learned a lot about like how to interview people. I still feel like I have loads to learn, but that was one of the main things why I wanted to create the podcast. Was not only to meet new people but also learn how to ask questions and interview people just ’cause that’s part of my other work as well. So yeah, I’m excited to learn more of that in the coming year. 

LEO: I think we started really strong from the get go already, but I feel like there’s a very obvious growth process that you can pinpoint if you listen to all of the episode of or or if you’ve been in this journey with us since the beginning. But yeah, it’s been really cool to learn a lot about each other as well ’cause we’ve been hanging out so much, putting this together and we’ve become really good friends and I’m really thankful for same what this podcast has brought to us. 

INDIGO: Same. And what do you want to achieve from now on, on the podcast? 

LEO: Me, us? 

INDIGO: Yes, us. What do, what do we want to achieve with the podcast?

LEO: Um, I think something that we obviously want to keep on doing is just what we, we’ve done so far and keep on documenting these trans and non-binary experiences in the film industries. Um, We want to reach out to more people, potentially get more people engaged in listening and interacting with us and coming in for interviews and any other potential ways of like interacting with us and yeah, just hosting a space for all the artists in this community. What about you, do you think we have any goals? 

INDIGO: Yeah, so we, we’ve been talking about potentially doing live events and other forms of collaborations, um, with trans and non-binary creators. Um, we want to expand change in the frame as a project, um, beyond the podcast form, and we’re open to any type of collaborate, collaboration. So if you’d like to collaborate, please reach out to us. Um, also something really exciting that has happened this year that we hope what happen more next year is that we got interviewed by Ava Lopez for the Glasgow Guardian um, and we would love to have more articles written about us and like put the words out there about what we’re doing.

LEO: It made me really happy when that article came out because we looked really cute. 

INDIGO: Yeah. 

LEO: We had a, a little photo on, on it and we just looked really cute. It was nice, it was nice to be acknowledged on what we’re doing, and I don’t know, have other people learn about what we do that perhaps we’re not reaching within our right now. How do you feel about talking about favourite moments? 

INDIGO: Yeah.

LEO: Have you had any favourite moments this year?

INDIGO: I’ve had loads of good moments, um, recording the podcast. I think one of the main things is making new friends and like getting to know the people that we’re interviewing and actually having deep chats before and after the episode and, yeah. And also like the people that we’ve interviewed from Glasgow, like actually meeting them in person. It’s been really nice and some of the connections that we’ve had, like from the US there’s one person that’s coming through soon, but won’t announce it. Um, but it will be coming, they’ll be coming soon, to the UK and it’ll be nice to meet them. And like I’ve met people from London, um, during Camp Trans and other stuff that I’ve done this year. So I feel like it’s been really nice to do that. You know, to meet new people. How about you? 

LEO: We, I, I agree. I think connecting with people has been one of my favourite things from the podcast because we’ve gotten to have some really deep conversations with people that perhaps you wouldn’t have in any other way. So we’ve gotten to really, really meet people and who they are by asking them questions and getting interested. And I feel like that really makes community. I feel like we could reach out to any of the people we’ve interviewed and ask for advice or ask questions or check in how you’re doing, how you’re getting on, and it’s just a very friendly vibe and I really enjoy that. That is just care beyond just making the podcast and releasing the episodes has been really nice. Um, yeah, one of my favourite bits from the podcast itself as well has been asking people for advice ’cause we’ve not gotten the same exact advice at all. We’ve released so many episodes with people and everybody has had something different to say that applies so well to creative practices or like personal life even. It’s just very nice to know that there’s ways to manoeuvre hardship out there and that people will always have a piece of advice to give. 

INDIGO: Yeah. And also I wanted to say that one of the advices that we got which was go where it’s warm and work with people that we feel good about. Um, that was from Elijah’s episode and I got that tattooed on, on my left knee, um, by another person that we interviewed Nat Lall. So yeah. We’re yeah we’re, we’re creating community, which is really lovely. 

LEO: That’s a very good reminder as well for advice: go where it’s warm. 

INDIGO: Yeah, it was good to get that tattooed. 

LEO: Other good things from the podcast itself as well have been the media recommendation bit that we do in every episode because it has allowed us to connect with the interviewees as friends as well. Um, it’s been very funny when people recommend something that we’ve already watched or read or seen, and then we can gush about it with them and bond over it. Um, I remember Hogan recommending a book that I had already read before and almost flipping the table when they mentioned it, and just some really good video games that Ava recommended that I’m excited to play. There’s just been so much good media going around that we can enjoy together and yeah, reach out again and be like, Hey, I watched the thing you recommended and it changed my life. So it’s been really good to share stuff as well together. We’ve got to see some really good films this year as well.

INDIGO: Yeah, through it, yeah. 

LEO: It’s been fantastic to have that opportunity to just…

INDIGO: Not only the films, but also like with Ivor and Rosanna, the Making of Pinocchio. We saw the live performance of that after. 

LEO: Yeah. And got to meet them both. 

INDIGO: Yeah. Like in person and I mean, I had met them already. But, but it was nice.

LEO: But I hadn’t, and it was, it was brilliant. It was a great time.

INDIGO: It was, it was really lovely. And it was great to see like the difference between the film and the live performance as well. Mm-hmm. Also the media recommendations. You can find them. We’re gonna put them on a spreadsheet and you can find them on our link tree, um, as well. And that’ll have like all the media recommendations that we’ve had throughout all the episodes. That’s also on our Instagrams like highlights. 

LEO: Yeah. 

INDIGO: But yeah, there’s also a spreadsheet, which is a bit more accessible. 

LEO: Just wanted to make it a bit comfy. Yeah. 

INDIGO: So we, we thought it would be nice to go into media recommendations ’cause we do this with every single episode. So we just wanted to check in after our mini episodes in January or February. Yeah. Um, to see what. Both Leo and I have been watching and yeah, what we would recommend from this year. 

LEO: Okay. I have a good list. I have a good list, but let’s start with films. I recently watched Te estoy amando locamente, which came out this year in Spain. Um, the English title is Love and Revolution, and it’s a historical drama directed by Alejandro Marin. It has a very good cast of people. Potentially the one people might recognize most internationally is Alba Flores. Um, she plays Nairobi in Money Heist. But yeah, it’s a very good film. It’s about the homosexual movement in the Andalucia of the seventies, and it’s, uh, it’s a true story. It’s a fictionalised true story. It reminded me a little bit of pride 2014, the film Pride, um, with the miners and the strikes and yeah, just pride marches and everything. It made me really happy. It had some really good moments, and it was really nice to see Spanish queer culture represented in a more mainstream film-esque ’cause it’s got support from the Spanish government. And it was, it was just really nice and cheery and fun, and it made me cry. It made my parents cry. It was fantastic. It was very great.

INDIGO: The film that I watched recently that I really liked was Kokomo City. Um, directed by D Smith and it’s an American documentary where D Smith interviews four Black trans sex workers about their experiences around intimacy and their work, um, and is very, very, beautiful and important. And yeah, I just really, really enjoyed it. Um, and so I wanted to pick this film as my recommendation because it is really important to highlight the lived experiences of Black trans sex workers and also I want to pay respect to Koko Da Doll who was in the film, who was one of the four people in the film and who passed away a couple months ago. If you get chance, you should definitely watch Kokomo City. It just got its release last week in the UK by Dog Wolf Distribution. Um, and then in terms of other media, the TV show that I’ve been watching nonstop this year is Heartstopper and I watch it every time I have a bad day or I need to just like not think much and just watch something cute. And with the new season out, I’ve. Yeah, we’re recording this like a week after the season has come out and I’ve seen it three times already. Um, so yeah. 

LEO: Yeah. And I came over for lunch and recording this episode today and we were watching starting your four three watch as well, which is very exciting. I have, I watched the first season when it came out and I loved it. I read the graphic novels long, long time ago as well, and I’m very excited to keep watching so we can discuss it as well. Yeah,  I’m gonna be texting you. 

INDIGO: Okay. You can. Um, but yeah, it’s really cute and a really nice show to watch. 

LEO: Yeah, I think that’s good. We’re gonna move on to music now. Um, one of my favourites for this year is Janelle Monet’s new album, the Age of Pleasure. I have been listening to this album nonstop while I cook, while I shower, just because, while I’m walking, doing the groceries, it’s constantly in my ears. It’s such a good feeling. It has incredible melodies, such good lyrics. It just makes me want to dance so much. Janelle Monae really did something good there. They, they crafted an incredible dancing album and it just makes me want to enjoy my body and music and dance and Twirl and do pirouettes basically. It’s good. It’s good. 

INDIGO: I haven’t listened to the whole album yet, but I love Janelle Monae and I loved Dirty Computer. It was an incredible visual album. 

LEO: Yeah, Dirty Computer was one of my favourites when it came out as well. Um, so it’s been very nice to see their progress as well along the years and how they’re reclaiming their own sensuality right now. It’s very good. Good for them. 

INDIGO: For me, an album that I’ve been listening to nonstop is Ethel Cain’s album Preacher’s Daughter, and I’m gonna see Ethel Cain twice in the UK because I love her. There’s not much to say. It is just an incredible album and everyone should listen to it. 

LEO: The duality of picking something fun and to dance, and then the catholic trauma Indie sad girl album. 

INDIGO: It’s true! 

LEO: I love it. I love it. I love Ethel Cain so much, and I’m gonna be there with you to see her live. I’m very excited about it. Um.

INDIGO: It’ll be really fun. I’m very excited. Um, and then in terms of books, I try my best to read as much as I can. Um, the book that I’ve been reading recently is Pageboy by Elliot Page. I’m just in the last couple chapters and yeah, it’s been really interesting learning about his experiences in the industry and like just in general as a queer person. So I highly recommend that. How about you? 

LEO: Um, I have two recommendations, but I’m also gonna say, I think the audiobook for Pageboy is actually read by Elliot Page himself. 

INDIGO: Yeah. Yeah. 

LEO: So I think I might read it, read it that way instead so I can listen to him. Um, I have two book recommendations. I have one called Voice of the Fish by Lars Horn, which is a book that I’ve been chatting about nonstop lately. Um, it’s about the mythologies surrounding fish, but it’s memoirs mixed with academic writing about trans bodies and illness and pain, and it has incredible writing on it, and I’m a bit of a mythologies nerd so it’s been really interesting to learn about different types of fish and how they present in different mythologies. And the second book I’m gonna recommend is a very, very short novella called The Psalm for the Wild Built by Becky Chambers, in which a tea monk meets a robot basically. It has solar punk themes and the backdrop for it is very interesting in terms of technology and nature and potential futures that we could be experiencing instead of climate disaster. It is. It has very interesting gender as well. The main character is genderless and it’s quite gay. It’s very fun. It has some really nice teachings about slowing down and taking time to rest. So it’s a good read. It’s a very nice, gentle read. We’re moving on to podcasts. So what’s your podcast recommendations for just now?

INDIGO: I have two that I’ve been listening to, um, on the way to the gym. 

LEO: Nice. 

INDIGO: Um, one of them is Maintenance Phase that was recommended to me, and it’s basically a podcast that goes towards like the history of different, um, exercises. So like Pilates or Capoeira or, yeah. Different things and talks about like losing weight and debunking loads of theories and stuff. Um, it’s really good. It’s about body positivity and it’s great. It’s been really enjoying it. The latest episode I’ve been listening to was about Pilates and the history of it, which was really cool. And then the other podcast that I’ve been listening to is Multiamory: Rethinking Modern Relationships. And it’s just, yeah, it’s just another, great podcast. Um, I think it was the first podcast to talk about polyamory. Um, so it’s the longest running, um, now and yeah, I’ve been learning a lot with it, which is great.

LEO: I have also listened to a few episodes of Multiamory and it’s very good and it feels quite accessible. So, yeah, I’ll have to listen to more. I’ve listened to just a couple, but I’ll have to listen to more. My podcast recommendation for just now is Waterlands. It’s made by the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust, and it’s a very short podcast. The episodes are quite bite sized, if you want call them that and they’re all about blue spaces in the uk, so bodies of water: lakes, rivers, marshes, ponds, and the wildlife and flora that lives in them, and how people can enjoy those spaces, and just very important to be in nature I’ve rediscovered this year, and I’ve really enjoyed this podcast because it has nature recordings, but also has people of many different identities and backgrounds rediscovering the joys of nature and the importance of it.

INDIGO: That’s really cool.

LEO: Have such good recommendations you and I.

INDIGO: I know. I’m gonna listen to that podcast. 

LEO: I’m gonna listen to the podcast you recommended. I’m gonna watch Kokomo City and we’re gonna keep on chatting about Heartstopper. So it’s gonna be busy, busy, busy. 

INDIGO: So excited for you to finish season two.

LEO: Yes. So I think that might be us get into the end of this episode. If you’ve ever enjoyed Changing The Frame, and want to give us a little message or let us know what you’ve thought through this year. If you’ve enjoyed any particular moments, any particular interviews, any particular episodes, we would like to know what you think about what we’re doing. We would like to know if you would like to be enjoying the podcast with us and joining us to be interviewed. If you have any projects relating to the film industries and you’re trans and non-binary, please reach out. Let us know your thoughts, and let’s stay connected. 

INDIGO: Yeah. 

LEO: And to many more years. 

INDIGO: Yes. 

LEO: Thank you for listening and goodbye.

INDIGO: Thank you, and stay tuned for following episodes soon. This is… 

BOTH: Changing The Frame.

LEO: Nice.

[upbeat drum based song]